Episode 18: Getting "Firm" with Teenage Dogs

5/13/2024

This week’s question is about your changing relationship with your puppy through his teenage months:

"I was talking with a very respected breeder about my ten-month-old Bull Terrier and she told me that this is the age where I need to start being ‘firm’ with him. What does she mean by ‘firm?’"

In this episode I explain:

What we mean by “firm”
Your process for deciding when and how to be “firm” as your puppy matures.
Why being “firm” is important as puppies mature into teenagers, but inappropriate and harmful for young puppies.

Listen wherever you get your podcasts, and subscribe so you never miss an episode!

To read the transcript for this episode, click the link below.

EPISODE 18 - TRANSCRIPT

I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist and this is a Puppy Culture potluck podcast. You bring the topics, we bring the conversation.

Today's topic comes to us through one of my puppy owners. I got a phone call and my puppy owner had been talking to another very respected breeder. And my puppy owner has a ten month old male bull terrier puppy.

And this other breeder told him, well, you know, at this age, this is the age where you have to start getting firm with them.

And his question to me was, what did she mean by firm? And I love this question because. First of all, it's absolutely true that you do have to start getting more firm with puppies as they mature.

But what an experienced person's idea of firm is and the general pet population's idea of firm are two different things, probably. Let me explain.

So I have to circle back to the material that we cover in our puppy course. Whenever you're dealing with a dog that is displaying a behavior that is either something that you don't like or something where the dog is demanding something that perhaps you don't feel like giving them at the moment, or you're not sure if you really should give in to their demands for whatever it is.

You have to go through a process. And the first step in the process is, is this an I need or and I want. Meaning to say, does the dog legitimately have a need that is unmet? That you really do have to go in and meet. Another dog is truly within bounds to be asking for this? Or is the dog just saying, you know I'd really like this?

I mean, this would be great. I it's this way now. And I would rather that it was this other way. And could you do a dog a favor and give me the cookie? Let me out, play with me, pay attention to me, whatever it is that they're wanting. And the $20,000 question, of course, is how do you know if it's an I want or an I need?

That is going to be beyond the scope of this podcast. But let me give you some examples to give you a kind of an idea of this concept and what I'm talking about.

Context is everything. If you have a two year old dog that is perfectly crate trained and never makes a peep, and that dog suddenly is screaming to get out of that crate, you know, that's an ‘I need’ the context of the dog being perfectly crate trained and it being very uncharacteristic for the dog to be screaming to get out of the crate.

You know, the dog's got some kind of problem. It's got to get out of the crate. It probably has to go to the bathroom. That is a classic example of ‘I need’. In that case, I don't care what the dog is doing, how obnoxious the dog is being. I'm going to meet that dog's need.

Now, in contrast, if I have a dog that I know every time I talk on the telephone, it starts whining and scratching at the crate because it thinks, you know, maybe I'll have a shot.

She's not she doesn't have her head down. She's not working. Maybe I have a shot. She's talking. Now I have a different process that I have to go through because I cannot assume it's an ‘I need’. And I also can't assume it's an ‘I want’. It's most likely and I want because that's what the dog does. But I have to think back to myself.

When was the last time that dog was out of the crate? What has that, when has the dog eaten? Did they actually go to the bathroom the last time I let them out? Is there some real possibility that this is an ‘I need’ and if I just let the dog out 15 minutes ago and it moved its bowels and it peed, you know, it's an ‘I want’ I can safely ignore this.

I do not have to let that dog out of the crate.

So that's a classic example of the same exact behavior being either an I want or an I need depending on the context. So when you're faced with this dog doing this thing that is undesirable or demanding of you, that's the first formula that you have to run. Is it an I want or and I need. If it's an I need, regardless of the age of the dog, whether it's a puppy, adult teenager, you need to meet that need. Okay. Then if we're on to an I want, we can start making decisions about whether we are going to gratify the wishes of the dog and on what terms will do so.

And this brings in the next formula that you need to run, which is where is the dog developed mentally with respect to concepts versus rules? Again, just to briefly recap, puppies lack the executive function to really wrap their head around rules, so we're more interested in instilling concepts in puppies than teaching them rules. It is not until they get a little bit older that they really have the prefrontal cortex, the executive function, to be able to wrap their head around consequences - if/then kind of consequences, we certainly introduce this to them. But the puppy brain is preferentially wired for emotional versus operant learning, classical conditioning versus operant conditioning. So they learn by association how to feel about things with as little as one exposure, but it's difficult for them to maintain criteria for rules. You are setting yourself up for frustration and failure.

If you try and impose rules on a young puppy, they just don't have the wherewithal to maintain the criteria. So whether you gratify a dog's request for something and how you do it, and whether you ask the dog for something in return, first is going to really depend how old the dog is and where they are developmentally. Example, manding.

Manding is a concept that we teach very young puppies starting at four weeks old that they can ask for something that they can communicate to us, that they have a desire, something that they either need or want. And we use a sit as a mand. And it's not sit sitting politely for patting or it's not sitting first in order to access resources.

It's the puppy being able to say, Hey, look, human, I'm sitting. That means I want something. It's an upward communication from the puppy to us. It's a concept that it's possible to get something by doing a behavior, not a rule that he must do something before accessing resources. Two completely different things, but again, very confusing for pet owners because the behavior of sitting could very well be either a mand or a rule. Again, depending on the context.

We do not require our puppies to perform behaviors to access resources. We don't ask that of young puppies, but as they get to be 12, 14, 16 weeks, and then especially five, six months, there's a big jump. And now we start instilling more rules in our household. So now is the time that maybe you have to sit before you can access the outdoors or sit before you are patted or sit before I'll throw that toy for you.

We start asking for things in exchange from the dog. That is the most powerful and primary tool that we have as human beings with our dogs is that we control all the resources we are truly dominant in that sense that that dominance, meaning the scientific meaning, being in control of the resources, we are truly dominant over dogs and we start shaping our dogs behavior by controlling those resources and beneficently giving them out in exchange for behaviors that we find acceptable.

So how does this all relate to being firm? Well, I think you begin to see when we're talking about the first part of the formula, which is, is it I want or is it an I need the age of the dog is definitely context. Certainly any puppy that has only been in my house for a day or two or even the first week, I pretty much treat everything as an I need.

They've been separated from the only family they've ever known. They're in a new house, they're with new dogs. Their whole world has been turned upside down. They need comfort. They need reassurance. You don't need to worry about spoiling the baby. It's a baby. And it's okay to let them, quote unquote, get away with whatever they want to.

Pick them up if they're crying in the pen, I don't care. But as they start getting older and you start having a routine with them and they start falling into that routine, now we've got a different proposition because, again, puppies are going to try things. Dogs are very hopeful creatures. I mean, they're going to try all kinds of behaviors to get what they want and they really have to go through them all and figure out which ones work and which ones don't.

So as you're getting to those teenage years, you know, ten months old, when we talk about being firm with them, I think part of what we mean is that we are going to assume less, that it's going to be an ‘I need’. The context of the dog being ten months old is telling us, you know, when they start acting out or demanding things or barking or any of these common annoyances, we're going to lean more towards the side of it being an I want because they're going to try it on for size.

You still have to, you know, do your due diligence and think back. Does the dog have a point? But chances are you're going to start seeing more demanding kind of behavior at around this age where they're like, Hey, this might work. And being firm doesn't mean disciplining them. It just means, no, I'm not going to cave to that.

Again with concepts and rules, with a puppy that wants to go outside. I mean, I'm going to take the puppy out. If the baby puppy wants to go outside, if it's ten weeks old, I'm going to assume it needs to go outside. It's a it's an I need or even if it wants it. What the heck, I'm going to take the puppy out. But, you know, if I've got a ten month old now, I'm going to say, first of all, make sure it's and I want and not know I need I'm going to go through the whole thing.

When was the last time the dog was out? The dog was just out 15 minutes ago. We went out, we played, we did this, we did that. And then I'm going to make a decision. Am I going to gratify it? Yes/no, I mean, I'm busy. No. Then my firmness is no, you're not going out. You're going in a crate because it's annoying to me that you're scratching at the door.

Or two, yes, I am going to gratify it, but you're going to have to do something for me before I do for you. Now you're going to have to sit before I open that door, because we're not going to reward the scratching or obnoxious, obnoxious barking. We're going to look for a behavior that we find acceptable to ask for this thing.

So again, I don't want you to think that your dog is bad or wrong because they do things like bark, scratched doors, make noise in their crate, beg for food. They're going to try all these things. This is natural. You have a healthy, smart, active dog, if they're doing all those things, congratulations. You have a normal dog. But, you know, you just kind of have to go through the whole punch list and say, Yeah, sorry, bud. Nope, this doesn't work. This does work. And just teach them what works and what doesn't.

But again, I can't overemphasize, emphasize you always have to go to that first part of formula first and make sure it's not. And I need get to the point where it's in I want and then make a decision. Are you going to gratify or not gratify if you're not going to gratify, you've got to stop the behavior.

You can't let them go on. For instance, barking at the at the front window, if there's if there's people walking down the street, you call them once, one time. If they don't come away, you just go get a leash. You take them. You put them in a crate.

If they want to go out the back and they're scratching at the door. And that's not, you know, some people maybe that would be the signal that they would want. I wouldn't want my dog necessarily to do that or bark if they're out the back door and they're barking incessantly to get out. I mean, maybe you want them to bark to get out. Maybe that's not what you want. Maybe you have a bell that you want them to ring.

Maybe you know, you want them to scratch of the door and not bark. I mean, you pick your poison there, but maybe I'm going to think, well, maybe the dog's going to have to sit before they go outside. You know, they've indicated to me I'm going to do for them. Maybe now is my opportunity to teach them to do something for me in return for me giving them something.

As the puppy gets older, this is what we mean by being firm that we're not flexible on this, that we've made a determination that it's an I want or an I need. If it's an I want, either you're going to get it or you're not. And if you're not, it's not negotiable. You're going right into containment if you don't comply with what we're asking you to do.

And again, you're dispassionate about this, okay? You're not angry, It's not punitive. It's just showing the dog that crime doesn't pay you, okay? That whatever it is, it's a zero. I always say dog training is binaries, zeros and ones. Okay, we're teaching zeros and ones when they get to be ten months old, barking at the front window is a zero.

You get nothing for it either. You get called away, and if you can't stay away, then you get put in a crate. It just. It yields nothing for you. And then ones would be things like I sit before I go out. That's a one. It pays. I get what I want. I come in the kitchen, I sit in front of you, Look at me.

I'm an amazing dog. I get paid for that. So we're teaching the dog what pays, which are ones and what does not pay, which are zeros. It's as simple and dispassionate as that. But being firm does not mean being stern, strict or angry. It means maintaining that criteria and not being wishy washy about it. And this can be very complicated, especially in households with multiple people where some maybe are going to be a little bit of more of a soft touch and give in sometimes,

But especially in this teenage stage, okay, these puppies like between five months to two years old, it is so super important that you maintain criteria, that you always are not paying what you don't want and paying what you do want. Because here's the thing, if you're not firm in this way, and when I say firm again, I mean you being firm. More, it's an internal state that you have the discipline to maintain the criteria.

And if you do have that discipline, what will happen is that all those behaviors that you don't like will just fade away. The dog will maybe try them sometimes first, like, for instance, the dog scratches at the door instead of rings the doorbell, but then he scratches at the door and then he rings the doorbell and you let him out.

And then you may get a scratched door, ring doorbell, go out. But eventually that scratch the door, well, it will fade. It will become what we call superstitious behavior, because it really isn't part of the behavior. The behavior that's paying is the bell ringing. So dogs are efficient. You know, they're going to drop anything that doesn't work. They're going to sort of prune they're going to prune the behavior down to the, the least that they have to do.

So again, don't worry about stopping the stuff you don't want. Just pay exactly what you do want and the stuff you don't want will fall away.

So to sum it all up, yes, you do have to become more firm with your puppies as they mature, and certainly especially with teenagers, you have to be extremely firm with them. But firm does not mean punitive.

It does not mean punishing. It means that you have to maintain criteria, that you have to always be clear about whether it's an I want or an I need. You have to make a decision. If it is an I want whether you will or will not be gratifying that dog's wishes. And if you do decide to gratify the wishes of the dog, you have to be crystal clear about the terms under which you will gratify those wishes.

If you like this podcast, you'll love our puppy course at madcapuniversity.com. Breeders, we have a course for you to at madcapuniversity.com.

Well that's it for this time. Thanks for listening. Bye bye.