Episode 25 - Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Raw Food? Raw Diets for Puppies

Episode 25 - Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Raw Food? Raw Diets for Puppies - Part One

10/22/2024

This week’s episode is a fan request on feeding puppies a raw diet:

My breeder uses and recommended Puppy Culture as a resource for my partner and I, in preparation for our Toy Poodle pup that we'll be picking up in a week or so. We've completed your Puppy Owners Course, the Puppy Culture and Attention is the Mother films, and have started binging your podcast- love your stuff!

I'm wondering if you could make an episode on feeding dogs raw food. We plan to feed our pup raw (the breeder currently feeds raw) but it is a bit intimidating for people who are new to this diet! I'm wondering if you could cover a few things:

The science behind it / health benefits
Why you feed raw / how long you've been feeding raw
The dangers of it / how to avoid these dangers (proper practices for purchasing, handling and feeding raw)
Any challenges you've experienced / seen with feeding raw
Tips for starting raw diets - where to begin!
Whether the meat has to be a certain quality / where to purchase ingredients for homemade raw (I've heard that grocery store meats aren't safe because of their allotted salmonella/bacteria thresholds?)
How to handle raw treats (bones with raw meat) - do you have to clean bedding, etc. every time raw treats come in contact with it? Do you have to wipe down your pup's face/paws after contact?
Would LOVE if you could share some recipes for homemade raw food! Or other resources/recipe books on feeding raw
Whether puppies need special recipes or if they can eat the same recipes as adult dogs

I know a lot of this is google-able lol, but I've found that there is a lot of fear-mongering around feeding raw (from both owners and vets) so I wanted to reach out and see what your thoughts are!

There were too many great questions here to fit them all into one episode, so I’m doing this in two parts - In this episode, which is part one, I talk about:

Why we feed raw to our dogs and our experience with feeding raw for the past 26 years
The challenges of raw food and why some people are understandably more comfortable with kibble
Tips and resources for getting started feeding raw without losing your mind - it’s easier than most people make it out to be!

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To read the transcript for this episode, click the link below.

Episode 25 - Transcript

I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist and this is a Puppy Culture potluck podcast. You bring the topics, we bring the conversation.

Well, today's topic is on raw feeding. So here's the question.

I'm wondering if you could make an episode on feeding dogs raw food. We plan to feed our pup raw. The breeder currently feeds raw. But it's a bit intimidating for people who are new to this diet.

I'm wondering if you could cover a few things. Number one, the science behind it and health benefits. Number two, why do you feed raw and how long you've been feeding raw? Number three, the dangers of feeding raw and how to avoid these dangers. For instance, proper practices for purchasing, handling and feeding raw. Number four, any challenges you've experienced or seen with feeding raw?

Number five, tips for starting raw diets. Where to begin? Number six, whether the meat has to be a certain quality and where to purchase ingredients for homemade raw. I've heard that grocery store meats aren't safe because of their allotted salmonella and bacterial thresholds. Number seven, how to handle raw treats, bones with raw meat. Do you have to clean up bedding, etc. every time the raw treats come in contact with it? Do you have to wipe down your pup's face and paws after contact?

I would like. Oh, sorry. Number eight. I would love it if you would share some recipes for homemade raw food or other resources/recipe books on feeding raw. Number nine, whether puppies need special recipes or if they can eat the same recipes as adult dogs.

I know a lot of this is Google-able, L.O.L. but I found that there's a lot of fear mongering around feeding raw both from owners and vets. So I wanted to reach out and see what your thoughts are. Thank you so much. Appreciate any wisdom you can share on these topics.

Okay. Well, what those questions are more of an outline for a course on canine nutrition than a podcast.

So I'm not going to be able to tackle in detail every single thing that she asked about. But I am going to riff on these questions because I have a lot to say about the topic in general, and I'm going to break it into parts at least two, maybe three, because this is definitely going to run long.

I also want to say at the outset, if you're a die hard kibble feeder, you may not like the first part of this, but I encourage you to listen on because this is not a kibble bashing podcast and I am going to lay out the case for kibble as well.

So first question, how long have we been feeding raw and why do we feed raw? I have been feeding my dogs raw since 1998 and we are currently on our ninth generation of raw fed dogs and we've had multiple litters across generations. So a lot of dogs for a lot of years, about 26, 27 years. We wean our puppies on to raw and they continue with raw as long as they're with us.

Most of our puppy owners do continue with RAW as well. Our dogs are relatively very healthy for the breed. They live much longer than the average for the breed. And most importantly to us, they remain vibrant and puppy like well into their senior years. We have never had an adverse event related to raw feeding of any kind either for the dogs or for us.

So for what it's worth, our dogs are living testament to the fact that a raw diet is a healthy option for your pet.

As to why, initially I started with raw it, it was because it made sense to me to feed my dogs what they're designed to eat. I grew up in a family where every meal was made from fresh ingredients, and to this day I prepare three meals a day for my family.

It's not some kind of food tribe identification, it's just that I grew up in a family where people made food for themselves. My grandparents brought it from the old country and somehow we just never lost that. When I do eat any kind of prepared food, I immediately feel worse. So that also reinforces my behavior of sticking to making fresh food from fresh ingredients.

I tend to go to the local farm stand and use whatever's there. We are also fortunate enough to live in an area where local farmers and fishermen sell their freezer meat and fish at local farm stands. So that's pretty much all we eat. Local seasonal meats and vegetables from the local farm stand. You know, nowadays if you eat and cook like we do, you will be labeled a local vor or a seasonal vor or a slow foods movement person.

But honestly, it's just food, not an identity. And it's so strange to me and frankly, concerning to me that people find this exceptional. So circling back to the dogs, it just would have been weird for me to feed my dogs, processed food. The idea that it would be somehow healthy is akin to thinking that, quote, healthy choice unquote, frozen food would be somehow more healthy than roast chicken and vegetables that I prepared myself.

And the wisdom of that feeding model has been borne out for us over the generations with the health and longevity of our dogs.

Okay. So let's move on to the next question, which is what is the science behind raw feeding? And I have to say, I always find this question amusing because domestic dogs have been eating raw for somewhere between 30 and 40,000 years and thriving and wild Canids have been eating raw for, let's say, 37 to 40 million years and they got by just fine.

Commercial dog food was not even an option until 1860 and not popularized until maybe 80 years ago. It is the most bizarreo logic that the question always seems to be What is the science behind feeding raw? I mean, the science is that's what dogs eat. Somehow all those canids for 37 million years got by until Ken-L Ration arrived on the scene.

It should be assumed that raw food is good for your dog. The question should really be, how is it possible for dogs to survive on highly processed food without any variety or fresh ingredients? I mean, if someone said you have a choice, you could live on processed food in a tube. The same exact ingredients and flavor every day of your life.

Or you could eat a diet of prepared fresh fruits and vegetables, meat and fish. What person given that choice is going to say, Yeah. Tell me more about the science behind this fresh food thing. I'm not sure I trust it. Any normal person would ask, How is it possible to live on food in a tube? Because it defies common sense.

But that's the power of marketing. It has literally changed the sensibilities of humans and convinced us, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that we are incapable of feeding our dogs without a commercially prepared diet. Now, listen, the science behind dog nutrition is fascinating, but way beyond the scope of this podcast, I recommend Dr. Ian Billinghurst's book, Give Your Dog Bone as the best basic treatise on raw feeding the science behind it and the benefits.

If you want to get started, that is the most approachable, least intimidating, most commonsense book written by a veterinarian that's out there. But you know what? You really don't need to know the science behind raw feeling to know what's a healthy way to feed your dog because you've got 30,000 years plus my personal 26 to 27 years that says raw feeding is a healthy option.

Okay. And let's move on to health benefits. As the original poster pointed out, there is a truly overwhelming amount that's been written about the health benefits of feeding raw. And again, I do think that Billinghurst's book lays it out pretty well. And I just I don't need to add to any of that. So I'm only going to speak to the health benefits that we have observed in our own dogs over the generations.

These are pretty subjective observations. But the question is directed to me, so I'm sharing my perceptions. Take them for what they're worth.

I spoke in general previously about the health and longevity of my dogs, but to put it in context, a nine year old bull terrier is often, frankly, quite old. I judge bull terriers quite a bit. I judge veterans quite a bit, and I'm often shocked at how old nine year old dogs are.

Our dogs are still running agility at nine years old, sometimes into ten years old. Also, our dogs do not smell like dogs. You can put your nose into the fur of any of our dogs and they smell sweet like a horse, not doggy. You can run your hands over our dogs and pat them and your hands will come away clean.

We almost never bathe our dogs. The only time they get a bath is if they're going to a show or they got into something really nasty. And they absolutely do not smell and they feel clean to the touch. Our dogs almost never have any kind of digestive upset. Our puppies transition to their new homes with zero stomach upset.

Neither travel nor routine changes, nor diet changes seem to affect our dogs. We do vary their diet quite a bit, and even if we throw in the occasional meal of kibble or cooked food, they handle it just fine. Their stool volume is a small fraction of the stool volume that a kibble fed dog produces, and the stool itself breaks down into a white chalky substance., if we miss picking it up.

Once you get used to those clean, neat, raw food poops, the big greasy kibble poops are disturbing. So vibrant health, appealing body condition and odor, youthfulness into old age, long life, in 26 years of raw feeding I have yet to see any health downside whatsoever. Okay, Kibble feeders. Now, if I haven't lost you already. Here we go.

I have a saying that our ability as a civilization to keep dogs is based on three things. Number one, they sleep 20 hours a day. Number two, they can hold their bladder and bowels for 8 hours. And number three, the existence of the dog food industry. And I say that because prior to dog food being commercially available and affordable, dogs really were not kept so much as pets by middle class people.

Not in the same way that we do now. I would venture to say that the initial obstacle for most middle class people and I'm going back to Victorian times, you know, when the dog food industry began, that initial obstacle was probably more financial than anything else. But then, you know, as the generations went by, we also lost our ability to prepare food.

I mean, people have literally don't have the skills to prepare food. So having to prepare food for a dog now becomes an enormous chore that many people just lack the skill and competence to carry out. So there is this sizable cross section of the population that lacks the time, money and ability to put together a nutritionally viable diet for their dogs.

And kibble is the answer for them. They simply could not have a dog if they had to prepare food for the dog themselves. I do feel that people who get on a high horse about feeding raw are a bit like rich people who fill up their shopping carts with grass fed beef and organic vegetables and then look down their noses at people who are filling up their shopping carts with boxes of Kraft macaroni and cheese or Hamburger Helper.

Usually when someone's filling up their cart with those kinds of processed foods, it's because either they're less affluent, they're working longer hours or multiple jobs have larger families or are culturally disadvantaged because they never had a person in their life teach them how to prepare food. If you have the money, time and knowledge to feed your family fresh, organic food, you are not morally superior.

You are super fortunate. And the same thing goes for feeding dogs.

So let me drill down a little into what it really takes to feed raw. I would say many of these requirements would qualify as what she asked about, which are challenges of feeding raw. The easiest way to get started is to begin with a commercial raw mix.

Yes, there are pet food companies that make complete nutrition, dog food that's raw. However, we also prepare food from scratch. Three meals a day at our house and we have a vegetable garden and also fruit trees on our property. I make my own fermented vegetables. I make my own yogurt and kefir. We have access to pasteurized eggs. My sister has chickens right down the street.

We can get raw goat milk and raw cow milk. So we use the raw mix as a base and then just rotate our add ons based on whatever is in the house that day or for that matter, what's in the yard under the fruit trees or in the vegetable garden. Our dogs forage a lot. If you are not the kind of person who cooks from scratch every day, you won't have all those nice add ons handy.

So yes, your dog can just get by in the raw mixes, but optimally you'll be throwing some extra fermented foods and a variety of add ons into their dishes that you'll have to go to the store and get. Let me just say, this is not a cheap proposition unless you live right near to where the raw food companies are.

The shipping is crazy expensive and you also need a huge freezer to store the raw food in and you have to pay for electricity to keep it frozen so it adds up. You can definitely do this much more cheaply by buying the ingredients and divvying it up into portions. But that is an intensely time consuming pastime, especially if you want to grind the food first to avoid any choking hazard.

And then you're going to have to have some knowledge about balancing nutrients. And that can quickly become an atomic vortex of fussiness. Seriously, when you join some raw feeding groups, it becomes incomprehensible how anyone can accomplish feeding their dog. They will quibble about 1% more or less of an ingredient, fire off at each other about the amount of secreting organ versus muscle meat.

There are several different feeding models. It's crazy. But, you know, I just don't think it really has to be that difficult. At one time, I belonged to a co-op that sourced chicken as a base for raw feeding. And then I used to go meet a truck on the New Jersey Turnpike once every few months and get some pre-made raw mixes.

And I also went to a meat packing plant in New Jersey that sold dog food, you know, and beef ends that they ground up for dog food. It was worth it to me. But the fact remains, it was a lot of work and it's not for everyone. For what it's worth, my dogs got by at one point in my life extremely well on a diet of mostly chicken necks with the occasional alternate protein whenever I had a chance to get it and whatever kitchen scraps I had each day, but it was mostly chicken necks. I do think they do much better on the commercial balanced mix that we use now, but they did pretty darn good for about a decade on chicken necks, beef and tripe from the butcher and some kitchen scraps.

And no, I didn't measure anything. They got whatever I had on hand. I'm not advocating that diet. I'm just saying that if you're in a group and you're starting to freak out because you're seeing, you know, what looks like a Michelin starred restaurant offering for each dog every day, and people are arguing about percentages and ratios.. it, trust me, it doesn't have to be that hard.

Don't be intimidated. Again, if you want a nice, approachable entree into feeding raw and preparing it yourself, you can't go wrong with Dr. Billinghurst's book Give Your Dog a Bone. It's approachable, easy to follow, but be aware that it does involve more than opening a bag of food. And that's not for everyone, which is fine. This is a no judgment zone.

Okay. Well, I feel like that got us started on this topic, so I'm going to leave it here. But next time we're going to pick up with Avco and what complete and balanced really means.

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Well that's it for this time. Thanks for listening. Bye bye.